CARL SANDERS: UPDATE
John S. Torell
THIS IS NOT HEARSAY, THESE ARE FACTS
It was in the Spring 1994
issue of The Dove that we went public with the information that
Carl Sanders did not have a doctorate degree or any degree in the
engineering field. We also disclosed that Carl Sanders was not
the inventor of the microchip as he had been claiming in his
meetings. We also disclosed that his claim that he had met with
Henry Kissinger and other dignitaries were false. The information
that Carl Sanders did present in his meetings he had either read
in some literature or heard from other people who had knowledge
in the field of the development of the microchip.
The information that we
shared at that time was not from hearsay, but it came from
private meetings with Carl and Ruby Sanders in my church office
when we had asked Carl to show us his credentials. He produced a
number of documents from his time in the Air Force and from some
employment that he had had over the years with General Electric
and other corporations. But all the records that he showed me
indicated that he was only employed as a "technician",
not as a licensed engineer with a degree. He also produced a
number of transcripts from different colleges around the country
where he had taken different classes in engineering, but he never
did graduate from any college or university.
Carl Sanders was never an
officer in the United States Air Force. His discharge papers
state that he was given an honorable discharge on January 14th,
1964 with the rank of Staff Sergeant.
During his last visit in my
office, he broke down and under heavy sobs and tears he told us
that he had lied all these years about his degrees, and that the
lie had been getting bigger and bigger as time went on. Present
in my office were his wife Ruby, my assistant pastor and my wife.
During this meeting, Carl
asked his wife for forgiveness for having lied to her all these
years. He asked me as a pastor to forgive him for having lied in
meetings in our church, and he made a resolve to write a
confession, which I was to publish in "The Dove." In
this confession he was going to ask all pastors and people to
forgive him for the lies that he had told them.
Four days after his visit in
my office he reneged on his confession and told me that he would
not write it.
A few months earlier he had
been given an office at Victory Christian Center, a church in
Walnut Creek, California. This was the same church where I had
conducted a series of teaching seminars about a year before. When
I was half way through my teaching, I was terminated and given no
explanation why, and the contact between Pastor Ernest Amstalden
and me was broken off.
Since Pastor Amstalden and I
were not able to communicate, it gave Carl Sanders the
opportunity to play us against each other. My understanding was
that Pastor Amstalden was giving Carl a safe "haven" in
his church. Since I did not want to contact Ernest and ask him
point blank what was going on, in error I passed on the
understanding that Carl Sanders was hiding in this church and
using it as his office headquarters.
What Carl had not told me
was that Pastor Amstalden had confronted Carl in his office,
asked for documents from Carl, and was given the same material
that Carl had given me. Ernest drew the same conclusion that I
had done, and again Carl made a confession under tears that he
had been lying and that he did not have any degrees. Pastor
Amstalden then made the same recommendations that I had done.
Carl had to confess his lying, stop his meetings, and submit to a
restoration program. Carl stayed in submission to pastor
Amstalden for a few months and then he left.
Details on these events you
may read in the letter that was written from Pastor Amstalden on
November 9, 1994.
In the summer issue of
"The Dove" 1994, we reported that Carl Sanders was
traveling in Oregon and Washington conducting meetings, and that
his lying continued without any changes. He was still offering
his old tapes to the people in the meetings, where he stated that
he was the inventor of the microchip.
During his stay in Oregon,
Carl Sanders contacted Fritz Springmeier, a
"Christian" writer and
researcher. Carl did with Fritz what he had been doing with so
many other leaders in the Christian community. He convinced Fritz
that Carl was a victim of slander and gossip (particularly from
Terry Cook and me), and that all he wanted to do was to preach
the Gospel and get the truth out about the microchip before it
was too late.
Fritz produced a statement
in which he stated that he believed that Carl Sanders was a man
of God, and to Fritz's best knowledge and understanding, Carl was
speaking the truth. Fritz did say in his report, that due to his
heavy schedule, he had not had the time to totally check out
Carl's credentials, but what he had learned so far told him that
Carl was telling the truth and all others were lying.
When I tried to contact
Fritz over the telephone, (I have spoken to him a number of times
over the years.) a woman answered the phone and told me that
Fritz was not home. She did not know when he was coming home and
she said he was working on a special project.
From here the trail of Carl
Sanders led to Caldwell, Idaho, the Seventh Day Church of God
headquartered in Caldwell, and the local church in that city
which is pastored by Rev. Paul Woods. This denomination also has
a publishing house, where they print their own literature. Carl
Sanders was able to secure some meetings in Pastor Woods' church.
He also was given help in printing up his own literature, which
is used by Carl as handouts in his meetings. Again Carl had been
able to secure a church and a support group that would stand
behind him. But his baggage of lying was not far behind him.
A man living in the San
Francisco area called Pastor Woods when he had heard that Carl
was in Caldwell, and told him that there was something wrong with
Carl Sanders. Pastor Woods was given my telephone number and also
the telephone number to Ernest Amstalden. During a trip to
California, Pastor Woods stopped on a Sunday afternoon and had a
long discussion with Ernest. Next, I was given a telephone call
and I promised to send my report to Pastor Woods.
During some hour-long
conversations on the telephone, I shared in detail what had
happened in our church and what we had found out. Pastor Woods,
who is a very compassionate man, did not want to make any rash
moves, but he wanted for sure to find out if Carl was a liar or
not. He started his own investigation and contacted a number of
places where Carl had been previously.
Since Carl was relying on
the Seventh Day Church of God to print his literature, he would
came in about once a week. Once Pastor Woods had received his
information, he confronted Carl and asked him what the truth was.
Carl then stated that he had not earned a doctorate degree, but
had an honorary degree from the University of Hong Kong. He
promised to send a copy of this degree to pastor Woods. Carl then
pretty much sent the same documentation to Pastor Woods which he
had sent to me, Pastor Amstalden and Gary Kah in 1993.
When I last talked to Pastor
Woods, he stated that he was not prepared to present a written
statement concerning Carl Sanders, since he wanted to be
absolutely sure if Carl was lying or not. But he told me that he
was not printing any more literature for Carl at this time, and
that all aid from the Seventh Day Church of God was on hold until
all things had been cleared.
Pastor Woods had stated to
Carl over the telephone that Carl should contact Ernest and me to
clear up all things. So far Carl has refused.
Here is the address and
telephone number for Pastor Paul Woods: Seventh Day Church of
God, P.O. Box 804, Caldwell, Idaho, 83606-0804, telephone (208) 459-9755.
Before Pastor Paul Woods had
any knowledge of some problem with Carl Sanders, an article by
Carl Sanders was published in the Seventh Day Church of God
magazine in which all the lies that Carl had been saying over the
years was repeated.
From Idaho the trail of Carl
Sanders leads east. For the last few months he has been having
meetings in a number of States including New York and
Pennsylvania. Since people in all 50 states of the Union read
"The Dove" magazine, the reports keep coming in to my
office of what Carl is doing.
Carl Sanders has now
upgraded his "road tour" to include the Gospel singers
Lou and Jan McCoy. I have no idea where this married couple is
from, but they have been misinformed like the rest of us were. In
a newsletter from Carl Sanders dated July of 1994, the McCoys
state that they have been in the ministry for eight years.
THE MIND-SET OF CARL
As far as I am concerned,
God has turned over Carl to a REPROBATE MIND. And even
at they did not like to retain God in their knowledge God gave
them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not
convenient; Romans 1:28)
In Carl's newsletter he is
stating that he is under the covering of a church in Walnut
Creek, CA., which is where Pastor Amstalden is the pastor. Yet he
is violating the agreement that he made with that church, which
is that Carl was never again to preach the old message of
"End-times and the microchip,"
Here is what Cal is writing
in his July 1994 newsletter:
"We share an End-Time
message and will continue to do so as this is the calling that
God has put on the four of us. We are to warn the people of the
times that we are in and share with them just what God's word has
to say in regards to the SEVEN SIGNS OF THE LAST DAYS. The
message has centered around Rev. 13:16 and the Micro-Chip project
which I was a significant part of and the meeting that I attended
in different parts of the world."
Not only is Carl breaking
his covenant with Pastor Amstalden, he is continuing to lie to
the people in the world by stating that he had a significant role
in the development of the micro-chip, and having attended
meetings with heads of state. These are parts of his lies.
Carl also goes on to say
this: "We have redone all our literature and tapes and are
covering all seven signs." This is another violation of
Carl's covenant with Pastor Amstalden. All the master tapes and
literature was to be stored in boxes in Walnut Creek and not used
Then Carl goes on and makes
his most damning statement in his July newsletter. "I have
been called a liar (so was Jesus), and it has been said that our
messages scare people and, that may be so, but remember what
Jesus said in Luke 21:26 - men's hearts failing them for
What Carl is doing is to
compare himself with Jesus Christ. Carl has admitted to a number
of pastors that he has been a liar for years. He is continuing to
lie, and then he compares himself with Jesus Christ.
Carl is a master when it
comes to deception and conning people to believe him. His
newsletter is portraying him as a noble, simple servant who is
only trying to preach the Gospel and warn people about the coming
antichrist system. Because he does this, he is persecuted and
slandered. This type of white washing is designed to reach the
heart and the pocket book of the believers in Christ, who have no
knowledge of Carl Sanders, but are willing to help an
"underdog" who is fighting evil all by himself. Here is
another quote from his newsletter: "We have been under
severe attack by FRIENDS & FOES but, praise God, these
attacks have caused me to run straight to the Lord. I thank
friends and foes alike for their concern because through their
persecution, and the Lord's chastisement and help, He has given
me a greater desire to seek only His word and His will, NOT the
praise of men. I have asked the Lord and I ask your forgiveness
for any wrong I may have done."
This is nothing less than
slick double talk by a con-artist. No one is persecuting Carl
Sanders, but Christian leaders are requesting that he stop his
lying. All we are saying is this: CARL, STOP THE LYING, COME
CLEAN WITH A FULL CONFESSION, AND PUT YOURSELF UNDER A CHURCH AND
A PASTOR WHERE YOU CAN BE RESTORED.
Here is another quote from
"You will notice also that Dr. is no longer my title. John
3:30 says He must increase, but I must decrease," This is
the height of hypocrisy from Carl Sanders. He is not dropping the
doctor title in front of his name so that Jesus can increase, he
is dropping it because he never had a doctorate degree and this
lie is catching up with him. But instead of coming clean and
telling people that he lied about his doctorate degree, he is
trying to look "pious" and that he is doing this for
the sake of Jesus.
Then Carl goes on to say the
"With great conviction I preached 'STAND on the Rock Jesus
Christ, yet my own feet were slipping as I relied upon
charisma, sensationalism, and manipulation to get the Gospel
across, as if God needed all that. He didn't. All he wanted was a
willing vessel, pure and holy before Him. I praise Him for His
love and mercy. The title Dr. before my name was an honorary
title, but the 32 years as an engineer and the projects are
In this last statement Carl
is, for a change, telling some truth, but instead of coming out
and using the word "lying" he is substituting this for
"manipulation." But then he moves right into another
bold face lie: HE DOES NOT EVEN HAVE AN HONORARY DEGREE AS
DOCTOR FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF HONG KONG! And Carl Sanders
does not have 32 years experience as an engineer. The highest
graduation he has is from high school. He has taken quite a
number of classes in the engineering field from different
colleges across the nation, but he never graduated and received a
degree. All Carl Sanders has is experience as a
"technician" in the engineering field.
If Carl Sanders had preached
the Gospel, including an End-Time message, he would have done
fine. He is a good speaker and can teach well. He did not have to
give himself degrees and invent projects and events of which he had
taken part. Most preachers and teachers who are teaching on
End-Time events rely upon information gleaned from experts and
released documentation. This is fine with the Christian community
if a man has done his homework and studied a subject. They will
accept that. But that was not enough for Carl. He had to tell
people things about himself that were not true.
This lying and, worst of
all, a refusal to admit it, stop it, and repent from it when he
is confronted with facts that he cannot deny, is bringing
destruction to the body of Christ and makes Carl Sanders to be a "MOCKING
If you hear of Carl Sanders
speaking or having spoken in a church where you live, contact the
pastor and share what you know, and ask the pastor to start an
investigation at once. The Christian communities owe it to Jesus
to make sure that liars will not be able to fleece the flock.
Please contact my office and
let me know what you know. If you receive any literature from
Carl, please send me some copies. Our fax number is (530) 633-2918.
If this is the first time
you hear this message about Carl Sanders, and you want to have
more information, we are willing to share our past reports, as
well as the documentation that Carl Sanders supplied me with.
Please send in a check or money order for $15.00 to cover our
cost of reproducing the material and for the postage. Ask for the
"Carl Sanders investigation package A&B." Included
in this package is the letter from Pastor Amstalden, which he
wrote to Carl Sanders on November 9, 1994.
Pastor Paul Woods (208)
Pastor Ernest Amstalden (515) 827-6015
Carl Sanders - Part 1
Carl Sanders - Part 3
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Berean: Various Subjects and The Bible's Answers