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John S. Torell



It was in the Spring 1994 issue of The Dove that we went public with the information that Carl Sanders did not have a doctorate degree or any degree in the engineering field. We also disclosed that Carl Sanders was not the inventor of the microchip as he had been claiming in his meetings. We also disclosed that his claim that he had met with Henry Kissinger and other dignitaries were false. The information that Carl Sanders did present in his meetings he had either read in some literature or heard from other people who had knowledge in the field of the development of the microchip.

The information that we shared at that time was not from hearsay, but it came from private meetings with Carl and Ruby Sanders in my church office when we had asked Carl to show us his credentials. He produced a number of documents from his time in the Air Force and from some employment that he had had over the years with General Electric and other corporations. But all the records that he showed me indicated that he was only employed as a "technician", not as a licensed engineer with a degree. He also produced a number of transcripts from different colleges around the country where he had taken different classes in engineering, but he never did graduate from any college or university.

Carl Sanders was never an officer in the United States Air Force. His discharge papers state that he was given an honorable discharge on January 14th, 1964 with the rank of Staff Sergeant.

During his last visit in my office, he broke down and under heavy sobs and tears he told us that he had lied all these years about his degrees, and that the lie had been getting bigger and bigger as time went on. Present in my office were his wife Ruby, my assistant pastor and my wife.

During this meeting, Carl asked his wife for forgiveness for having lied to her all these years. He asked me as a pastor to forgive him for having lied in meetings in our church, and he made a resolve to write a confession, which I was to publish in "The Dove." In this confession he was going to ask all pastors and people to forgive him for the lies that he had told them.

Four days after his visit in my office he reneged on his confession and told me that he would not write it.

A few months earlier he had been given an office at Victory Christian Center, a church in Walnut Creek, California. This was the same church where I had conducted a series of teaching seminars about a year before. When I was half way through my teaching, I was terminated and given no explanation why, and the contact between Pastor Ernest Amstalden and me was broken off.

Since Pastor Amstalden and I were not able to communicate, it gave Carl Sanders the opportunity to play us against each other. My understanding was that Pastor Amstalden was giving Carl a safe "haven" in his church. Since I did not want to contact Ernest and ask him point blank what was going on, in error I passed on the understanding that Carl Sanders was hiding in this church and using it as his office headquarters.

What Carl had not told me was that Pastor Amstalden had confronted Carl in his office, asked for documents from Carl, and was given the same material that Carl had given me. Ernest drew the same conclusion that I had done, and again Carl made a confession under tears that he had been lying and that he did not have any degrees. Pastor Amstalden then made the same recommendations that I had done. Carl had to confess his lying, stop his meetings, and submit to a restoration program. Carl stayed in submission to pastor Amstalden for a few months and then he left.

Details on these events you may read in the letter that was written from Pastor Amstalden on November 9, 1994.

In the summer issue of "The Dove" 1994, we reported that Carl Sanders was traveling in Oregon and Washington conducting meetings, and that his lying continued without any changes. He was still offering his old tapes to the people in the meetings, where he stated that he was the inventor of the microchip.

During his stay in Oregon, Carl Sanders contacted Fritz Springmeier, a "Christian" writer and researcher. Carl did with Fritz what he had been doing with so many other leaders in the Christian community. He convinced Fritz that Carl was a victim of slander and gossip (particularly from Terry Cook and me), and that all he wanted to do was to preach the Gospel and get the truth out about the microchip before it was too late.

Fritz produced a statement in which he stated that he believed that Carl Sanders was a man of God, and to Fritz's best knowledge and understanding, Carl was speaking the truth. Fritz did say in his report, that due to his heavy schedule, he had not had the time to totally check out Carl's credentials, but what he had learned so far told him that Carl was telling the truth and all others were lying.

When I tried to contact Fritz over the telephone, (I have spoken to him a number of times over the years.) a woman answered the phone and told me that Fritz was not home. She did not know when he was coming home and she said he was working on a special project.

From here the trail of Carl Sanders led to Caldwell, Idaho, the Seventh Day Church of God headquartered in Caldwell, and the local church in that city which is pastored by Rev. Paul Woods. This denomination also has a publishing house, where they print their own literature. Carl Sanders was able to secure some meetings in Pastor Woods' church. He also was given help in printing up his own literature, which is used by Carl as handouts in his meetings. Again Carl had been able to secure a church and a support group that would stand behind him. But his baggage of lying was not far behind him.

A man living in the San Francisco area called Pastor Woods when he had heard that Carl was in Caldwell, and told him that there was something wrong with Carl Sanders. Pastor Woods was given my telephone number and also the telephone number to Ernest Amstalden. During a trip to California, Pastor Woods stopped on a Sunday afternoon and had a long discussion with Ernest. Next, I was given a telephone call and I promised to send my report to Pastor Woods.

During some hour-long conversations on the telephone, I shared in detail what had happened in our church and what we had found out. Pastor Woods, who is a very compassionate man, did not want to make any rash moves, but he wanted for sure to find out if Carl was a liar or not. He started his own investigation and contacted a number of places where Carl had been previously.

Since Carl was relying on the Seventh Day Church of God to print his literature, he would came in about once a week. Once Pastor Woods had received his information, he confronted Carl and asked him what the truth was. Carl then stated that he had not earned a doctorate degree, but had an honorary degree from the University of Hong Kong. He promised to send a copy of this degree to pastor Woods. Carl then pretty much sent the same documentation to Pastor Woods which he had sent to me, Pastor Amstalden and Gary Kah in 1993.

When I last talked to Pastor Woods, he stated that he was not prepared to present a written statement concerning Carl Sanders, since he wanted to be absolutely sure if Carl was lying or not. But he told me that he was not printing any more literature for Carl at this time, and that all aid from the Seventh Day Church of God was on hold until all things had been cleared.

Pastor Woods had stated to Carl over the telephone that Carl should contact Ernest and me to clear up all things. So far Carl has refused.

Here is the address and telephone number for Pastor Paul Woods: Seventh Day Church of God, P.O. Box 804, Caldwell, Idaho, 83606-0804, telephone (208) 459-9755.

Before Pastor Paul Woods had any knowledge of some problem with Carl Sanders, an article by Carl Sanders was published in the Seventh Day Church of God magazine in which all the lies that Carl had been saying over the years was repeated.

From Idaho the trail of Carl Sanders leads east. For the last few months he has been having meetings in a number of States including New York and Pennsylvania. Since people in all 50 states of the Union read "The Dove" magazine, the reports keep coming in to my office of what Carl is doing.

Carl Sanders has now upgraded his "road tour" to include the Gospel singers Lou and Jan McCoy. I have no idea where this married couple is from, but they have been misinformed like the rest of us were. In a newsletter from Carl Sanders dated July of 1994, the McCoys state that they have been in the ministry for eight years.

As far as I am concerned, God has turned over Carl to a REPROBATE MIND. And even at they did not like to retain God in their knowledge God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Romans 1:28)

In Carl's newsletter he is stating that he is under the covering of a church in Walnut Creek, CA., which is where Pastor Amstalden is the pastor. Yet he is violating the agreement that he made with that church, which is that Carl was never again to preach the old message of "End-times and the microchip,"

Here is what Cal is writing in his July 1994 newsletter:

"We share an End-Time message and will continue to do so as this is the calling that God has put on the four of us. We are to warn the people of the times that we are in and share with them just what God's word has to say in regards to the SEVEN SIGNS OF THE LAST DAYS. The message has centered around Rev. 13:16 and the Micro-Chip project which I was a significant part of and the meeting that I attended in different parts of the world."

Not only is Carl breaking his covenant with Pastor Amstalden, he is continuing to lie to the people in the world by stating that he had a significant role in the development of the micro-chip, and having attended meetings with heads of state. These are parts of his lies.

Carl also goes on to say this: "We have redone all our literature and tapes and are covering all seven signs." This is another violation of Carl's covenant with Pastor Amstalden. All the master tapes and literature was to be stored in boxes in Walnut Creek and not used again.

Then Carl goes on and makes his most damning statement in his July newsletter. "I have been called a liar (so was Jesus), and it has been said that our messages scare people and, that may be so, but remember what Jesus said in Luke 21:26 - men's hearts failing them for fear…"

What Carl is doing is to compare himself with Jesus Christ. Carl has admitted to a number of pastors that he has been a liar for years. He is continuing to lie, and then he compares himself with Jesus Christ.

Carl is a master when it comes to deception and conning people to believe him. His newsletter is portraying him as a noble, simple servant who is only trying to preach the Gospel and warn people about the coming antichrist system. Because he does this, he is persecuted and slandered. This type of white washing is designed to reach the heart and the pocket book of the believers in Christ, who have no knowledge of Carl Sanders, but are willing to help an "underdog" who is fighting evil all by himself. Here is another quote from his newsletter: "We have been under severe attack by FRIENDS & FOES but, praise God, these attacks have caused me to run straight to the Lord. I thank friends and foes alike for their concern because through their persecution, and the Lord's chastisement and help, He has given me a greater desire to seek only His word and His will, NOT the praise of men. I have asked the Lord and I ask your forgiveness for any wrong I may have done."

This is nothing less than slick double talk by a con-artist. No one is persecuting Carl Sanders, but Christian leaders are requesting that he stop his lying. All we are saying is this: CARL, STOP THE LYING, COME CLEAN WITH A FULL CONFESSION, AND PUT YOURSELF UNDER A CHURCH AND A PASTOR WHERE YOU CAN BE RESTORED.

Here is another quote from Carl's letter:
"You will notice also that Dr. is no longer my title. John 3:30 says He must increase, but I must decrease," This is the height of hypocrisy from Carl Sanders. He is not dropping the doctor title in front of his name so that Jesus can increase, he is dropping it because he never had a doctorate degree and this lie is catching up with him. But instead of coming clean and telling people that he lied about his doctorate degree, he is trying to look "pious" and that he is doing this for the sake of Jesus.

Then Carl goes on to say the following:
"With great conviction I preached 'STAND on the Rock Jesus Christ’, yet my own feet were slipping as I relied upon charisma, sensationalism, and manipulation to get the Gospel across, as if God needed all that. He didn't. All he wanted was a willing vessel, pure and holy before Him. I praise Him for His love and mercy. The title Dr. before my name was an honorary title, but the 32 years as an engineer and the projects are real."

In this last statement Carl is, for a change, telling some truth, but instead of coming out and using the word "lying" he is substituting this for "manipulation." But then he moves right into another bold face lie: HE DOES NOT EVEN HAVE AN HONORARY DEGREE AS DOCTOR FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF HONG KONG! And Carl Sanders does not have 32 years experience as an engineer. The highest graduation he has is from high school. He has taken quite a number of classes in the engineering field from different colleges across the nation, but he never graduated and received a degree. All Carl Sanders has is experience as a "technician" in the engineering field.

If Carl Sanders had preached the Gospel, including an End-Time message, he would have done fine. He is a good speaker and can teach well. He did not have to give himself degrees and invent projects and events of which he had taken part. Most preachers and teachers who are teaching on End-Time events rely upon information gleaned from experts and released documentation. This is fine with the Christian community if a man has done his homework and studied a subject. They will accept that. But that was not enough for Carl. He had to tell people things about himself that were not true.

This lying and, worst of all, a refusal to admit it, stop it, and repent from it when he is confronted with facts that he cannot deny, is bringing destruction to the body of Christ and makes Carl Sanders to be a "MOCKING FALSE PROPHET."

If you hear of Carl Sanders speaking or having spoken in a church where you live, contact the pastor and share what you know, and ask the pastor to start an investigation at once. The Christian communities owe it to Jesus to make sure that liars will not be able to fleece the flock.

Please contact my office and let me know what you know. If you receive any literature from Carl, please send me some copies. Our fax number is (530) 633-2918.

If this is the first time you hear this message about Carl Sanders, and you want to have more information, we are willing to share our past reports, as well as the documentation that Carl Sanders supplied me with. Please send in a check or money order for $15.00 to cover our cost of reproducing the material and for the postage. Ask for the "Carl Sanders investigation package A&B." Included in this package is the letter from Pastor Amstalden, which he wrote to Carl Sanders on November 9, 1994.

Pastor Paul Woods (208) 459-9755
Pastor Ernest Amstalden  (515) 827-6015

Carl Sanders - Part 1
Carl Sanders - Part 3

Back to Being Berean: Various Subjects and The Bible's Answers




Listen to God's Plan of Salvation  

An intimate Love Letter from Father God to you.

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